KEVIN FREiSeN, HOTDOGS FOR BREAKFAST (2019)

Seb: Hi, Kevin!

Kevin: Hi! 

Seb: I'm Seb and...

Adam: I'm Adam! 

Seb: And we're from Insomniac. How are you?

Kevin: Doing well. How are you? 

Seb: Great! Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. 

Kevin: Oh, thank you very much for giving me a call. I feel pretty honored for even being selected. 

Seb: Of course! We loved your film. 

Adam: Yeah, we loved it very much. Which is evident! 'Cause it's in the festival. [Laughing] Can you start off by introducing yourself and your film?

Kevin: Yes, my name is Kevin Freisen. I grew up on a farm in Saskatchewan, lived there most of my life and then moved to BC, got married, had kids, and then later on in life I decided to go back to university, which is where I took the documentary film class.

[Hotdogs for Breakfast] was a collaboration between me and some other students. I was supposed to make a pitch, which I'd never done before...and the prof told us to have something that we could relate to or something that was important in our life. I've got kids and I'm a university student so I thought, "Oh, I could go that angle, I guess." But it just seemed really boring. So anyways, I was talking to a guy in class and he was telling me that in the morning he'd eaten last night's spaghetti for breakfast. [Laughter]. My brain immediately went to an image where he woke up and at the side of his bed was a pot with dried spaghetti and sauce. Clearly, that's not what he did! But that's where my brain went. 'Cause I told him, and he was like, "No no, I got up and got it from the fridge."

Adam: The way a person normally eats leftovers. [Both laughing].

Kevin: And all of a sudden, the idea just popped into my head. Like, that's a really interesting thing that he ate for breakfast. I think there's a lot of stuff like that out there. And so I thought, I'm just gonna make a documentary based on the type of food that you aren't the proudest of necessarily, but you put some little creative input into it. There's usually some sort of story behind it.

Adam: It's such a personal experience to make food that maybe from the outside seems gross to people but does become important to you.

Kevin: Yeah, I was looking for personal stories. I had a very short time to make the film. And I was working with other people, which I wasn't used to. So getting the stories and finding the right people was a struggle. But I knew it was out there. So I started with a friend, and he's the guy who made the taco in a bag. In my opinion not as interesting of a story, but I liked his personality.

I knew there was gonna be stories, but I knew I just had to let it happen. I was really surprised with Maynard's story and where it came from, because it was kind of a more touching story. She came from four households, her siblings did what they had to do. And I don't think she had bad parents or anything like that, they were just busy making money so the food could get on the table. But she had a really great personality too - the first time I'd ever met her. It was great.

Seb: One of our favorite aspects of the film is your on screen relationship with the subjects. Obviously you've known your friend a long time, but how did you get someone who you’d just met to be so comfortable with you that they're sharing these intimate stories and you're eating in their room?

Kevin: Well, I did have a connection with her through my partner on the project, Matt. He worked with her… I'm really glad that I did get to her, and I made sure to talk to her very little before the shoot. I just wanted things to be really raw between us. Funny enough, she worked at a video rental store - and I love that, 'cause I miss those so much. 

I don't know, I have no problem with complete strangers and just talking with them about whatever. I'm really comfortable meeting new people. It's something I got from my dad. As a kid, I remember being in parking lots for 45 minutes with my mom and sister in the car. We'd be like, "Where's dad?" And he's been in the bank for 45 minutes, and my mom's like "Oh, I'm sure he's visiting somebody." Sure enough, he'd come in the car and he'd be like, "Oh yeah! I met George in the bank," blah blah. My dad could meet any single person off the street and it'd be like they've known each other for years. So I think I kind of inherited that part of his personality. 

Me and Matt had discussed how we want to be eating the food, and it was a collaborative idea to ask [the subjects], "Where would you normally be eating alone at your house?" So that's the place [Maynard] takes her food. Like, she's alone. She's gonna eat her food watching The Office in her room. We figured that was the best place to do it. We knew it was gonna be kind of a funny thing, so we thought that would work really well. 

Adam: It’s a very solo way of eating food, but you decided to make it into a collaborative experience in the film. Even for you at the end of the movie, you're eating on your couch - you're not eating at a dinner table… you're eating while on your computer. What was so important about presenting eating in this kind of way?

Kevin: I guess it is such an intimate place. I told them not to clean their spaces. I just wanted it to be a natural environment. I didn't want anything artificial - I wanted you to see a person living alone. Like for me, my house is messy for a different reason - I've got kids. There's a part of the film that we cut out… unfortunately my producer [Denise Kenney] was harsh with the cuts! She's a really accomplished producer. She's done lots of stuff. She's a professional. So I trusted her and everything. There was one thing that she said, "Don't get married to any clips." I was like, "Euuuuu..." [Laughing] 

But anyway, there was a part I cut out where I was talking with Brett [the taco in a bag guy], and I asked, "What do you have to clean up?" And he was like, "Nobody's got time for dishes." And then I kind of laughed and I was like, "Well, that's the funny thing, you know, you probably have a lot more time for dishes than I do." [All laughing]. I've got kids and a wife, we've got jobs, and I go to school. I said, "I'm not sure if time is the reason..." And then we both thought about it and laughed, and we were like, "Laziness!" That's the driving factor if you're living alone. But anyway, you don't need to clean up if you're fine with your mess. 

Yeah, I was just really...heh heh...I was happy! I hadn't even stepped into the room - I didn't go and look in there and see what it was like to film in there. I just trusted that whatever it was, was going to be acceptable. And so it was! Her room was quite messy. [Kevin laughs]. If you look in her room, it's just...there's stuff everywhere! She's got a strong personality and she seemed like a very open person. So, I think it's very kind of her to invite me into her room and sit on her bed and witness her small messy space...yeah, and then be intimate in that way. Which is funny, too, with the word 'intimate' in a bedroom. It’s not something you'd normally think about with sharing a weird sandwich. [Everyone laughs].

I didn't intentionally make it intimate and there was no intentional innuendo. Though with Brett, I thought it was really funny with the Spanish love music playing and we were crunching the taco bag. It ended up being really funny by accident.

Seb: In the staging and the relationship you have with Brett, it feels like a childlike thing in terms of playing video games and trying to eat as much as you can before the other person is finished.

Kevin: That's the part Denise wanted to cut! I fought for that one.

Seb: Do you feel like your relationship with Brett went back to a more adolescent thing in that moment?

Kevin: Well, you see, Brett...he's a lot younger than I am. I'm 34 and he's like 22 or something. I met him because I was a director at a Bible camp and he was a staff member. And then he moved to BC. And I also moved to BC. So, that was kind of where our relationship was. It wasn't very deep. I guess it started in camp because we got to know each other quite well.

But between me and him, we never really played video games together like that. But you're right, it did bring me back - probably brought me back more than it brought him back. [Laughing]. After that I was like, "Man, why don't we hang out more?" And he said, "Totally!" Yeah, it was a really great connective experience.

Seb: It's amazing. I always think about this story that Adam told me, when he tried to blend everything to make...a smoothie?

Adam: Oh, yeah! Back in grade seven! My friend and I had no clue how to make a smoothie, but we knew that you were supposed to put milk in it. We didn't have any fruits. But we were like, oh, maybe banana extract will do the job? [Dying of laughter]. So we had one sip, but it was pretty much just like eating poison.

Kevin: Yeah, totally. It'd be like the medicine you'd take when you were a kid. Did you ever get that stuff? That antibiotic medicine?

Seb: Oh yeah, it's like powdery? 

Kevin: Well, yeah, chalky?

Seb: Yeah, it's disgusting.

Adam: But we did get to have this connective experience through food and through our naivety towards food. So all in all, I think it was still a positive experience for our relationship. 

Kevin: Food is such a connecting thing. Like, making food for somebody - that's such a community thing. I don't know if the experience is the same but did your parents ever have other adults over for coffee in the evenings or on the weekends? People just drop by and...you always had baked goods in the freezer in case somebody's gonna drop in. There's a full spread of delicious treats.

Connection happens around food. It's just the way it is. So, it's the same thing with food that you don't normally share. As soon as you start making food for somebody or sharing food the conversation becomes so much easier.

Seb: We were hoping to take that a step further - if it's okay with you and Brett - in serving tacos in a bag at our after party.

Kevin: [Laughing] Totally do that! I don't think we copyrighted it. Have you ever had taco in a bag?

Adam: They serve it at a carnival here every summer called 'The Ex', but that's the only time I've ever heard of it. I've never had it, so I'm excited.

Kevin: Yeah! It's great. 

Adam: It genuinely looked really good. Even the ramen grilled cheese looked pretty good.

Kevin: It was surprisingly good! The hot dogs I made for myself later [in the movie] were not as good...

Adam: You put a lot of things in it...there was the hot dog, bacon, ramen, crushed Doritos...

Kevin: Yeah, there's the silence of me eating the food [in the film]...I didn't know whether to put some voiceover there. I did have some prepared, and I was just gonna end it by saying, "Yeah, it tasted like a hot dog." [All laughing]. But I just left it silent which worked well. It tasted like a hot dog. The ramen didn't add what it did with that grilled cheez whiz sandwich. That was a very interesting food. It'd be hilarious if you served that [at the after party]. But I'm sure the taco in the bag will be a more palatable food.

Seb: We can maybe make one! 

Adam: One part of the film that we haven’t talked about yet is the opening man on the street bit. You get a lot of really good answers and it sets up the tone of the film really well. Why you decide to start off with a man on the street rather than jumping straight into the subjects?

Kevin: We had a lot of filming done already, and that's all we were gonna use. I showed it to our producer and she said "I think you need some streeters." I was a little hesitant at first, but then I said, let's just go and do it. Let's see what happens. And it turned out really good. It was fun. It was fun going around and just getting those opinions. I think my favourite was the guy who said he put Cheez-its on his peanut butter. [Laughing] And I was like, "Oh, that's so funny." 

Seb: I think it speaks to the universality of the concept where almost everyone has their own thing like this. What happens when you share your private self? And I think people latch on to that. I think that's one of the reasons why we latched onto the film. I feel embarrassed about the things that I eat late at night, but being able to share those embarrassing things can be liberating. 

Kevin: I agree. And actually, it's something that I've been thinking about a lot. Like, not a lot a lot, but there was another project… like I like to do photography as well, I'd say primarily. I didn't want to be the director of the film. I was hoping my film wouldn't get chosen. I just want to film - I just want to be behind the camera and film stuff because that's where I feel I can really get creative. I filmed only the opening sequence with those panning shots and tilts. It was very difficult for me to give up control because the people that I was working with had no experience with cameras at all. And so I was like, "How is this gonna turn out?"

It was a little bit raw. It felt raw, which I thought was good. The camera work isn't professional. If I had been behind the camera, it would have been a lot different...and I just had to let go of that. But anyways, getting back to the question...this idea of intimate spaces and community - it was something that I've been interested in exploring. I wanted to do a photo book or some kind of documentary on that - any events that people have in their houses...like maybe once a year they get together, and they all like GI Joe action figures, so they have a GI Joe party. I'm sure that's out there somewhere.

People gather around interesting things. I would like to find something maybe a bit more interesting than that, but my idea was to go to the mall and just ask “do you have a regular party that you guys go to every year? Do you mind if I come by and documented it?” That's the kind of exploration that I've been interested in for a little bit.

I just think that there's a lot of interesting things happening. You know, you drive down the street, and you look at houses and you're like, “Oh, there's people in the house. What are they doing? What's going on in that house? Are they happy? Do they do things?” Of course they do. But, you know, it's just interesting. There's really endless possibilities. People's lives are pretty private, but you know, people do interesting stuff. I'm probably not answering your question or whatever. 

Seb: No, that was super interesting!

Adam: Yeah! There's so much that people do in their private spaces that we're never going to get a glimpse of, but are very fascinating and speak to the person as a whole. 

Kevin: It's difficult to get a genuine perspective. We did explore in our documentary film class the different types of documentary film. There was one done by a Canadian director in the 60's where they put hidden cameras in a house, and they filmed, and that was it, and presented it. But then the question of like, "Is this really an accurate depiction?" They had to know the cameras were there.

I'm interested in like, authentic stories, authentic people. I love authenticity. Like, I really, really can't stand superficiality. I like people being real, whether it's abrasive or whatever. It's a breath of fresh air when people are honest. What you see is what you get.

Seb: I think if you want to do photography or cinematography, you definitely could have a second career as a host - because the way you get people to open up and how clearly interested you are in what they have to say really shines through in the film.

Kevin: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I think I’m kind of awkward.

Adam: There's an earnestness [in the film] because of it. 

Seb: Even to the cinematography. The rawness you talked about just adds to the feeling that you're seeing real people. 

Adam: Any final things? I know you're not gonna be able to make it to the festival. :(

Kevin: It would've been crazy if it was happening while I was in Toronto. I've done video stuff before, but I've never done a documentary. But, I enjoyed the experience and I entered into a lot of festivals and this is the first one that I have been accepted in. So thank you very much. I do feel honoured and humbled. I didn't know if [the film] would really pique anybody's interest in order to put it in a festival, so this is just an icing on the cake. I was already happy with the results. It's just really nice that you guys decided to choose my film. I just really appreciate it. Really wish that we could make it out to Toronto!

Seb: Another time, maybe.

Kevin: Another time, yeah, haha. 

Adam: Next year!